You rock for sharing things like this in a kind and compassionate way.
Having sources and building stim menus makes total sense! I hope I use the correct words here: I have tasks, including household maintenance and cleaning, that I simply cannot do without certain sources in place. When everything is in place, I can complete tasks in much less time than when I don’t. Similar to what you described about writing therapy notes. For example, by itself, one sink of dishes would take me an hour to load into the dishwasher and I couldn’t finish without the necessary sources. But with the right sources, gloves and music and a timer for 15 minutes (my ideal stim menu for this task) it takes me five minutes.
And I cannot do dishes for the life of me unless there's music and a timer going: we're on the same wavelength! It's crazy how much more time it takes to complete a task without the right amount of stimulation...
I feel like some of the issues of my ADHD are masked by my autism - and vice versa, probably another reason I didn't realise that I was AuDHD for such a long time. I don't think I could ever listen to any background noise to initiate focus for instance, noise is a huge sensory issue for me. I need a quiet, distraction free space (easier said than done right!) and even then it still takes a long time to get in the zone.... But once I'm in, I can stay there. The problem with that, obviously, is the need to commit to that initial start up. Some good ideas there that might help that process, and interesting information about the reasons behind it, thanks.
I imagine it took you some time to understand what stimulation you needed added (and removed). Sounds like finding that zone involves setting up guards from particular stimulation in an environment more so than layering others in: does that track with your experience?
Also, the quote "...to commit to that initial start up..." feels like deep wisdom for ND folks. There's a point where **a commitment is needed to the process of finding the right supports** for a given task, on that particular day.
Definitely - I also struggle with internal demand avoidance - I used to think I responded best to a deadline, but actually that was just because I'm so rule bound I could never submit work late. It still made me deeply anxious. I experimented at Uni (before realising I was ND) and found that completing assignments early, when I didn't feel the pressure of the deadline made it more enjoyable. My first working session would usually just be - open a document, add a title, copy and paste the question in and sometimes a very brief outline plan, then save it. I find that for me, STARTING is the hardest part - so once that's done, it's easier to get stuck in. For 20-40 minutes I need peace, no phone notifications or anyone trying to talk to me, then I'm in the hyperfocus zone. I can get up, make a cuppa, talk to my husband etc and stay in the zone - but it's physically painful to think of not finishing what I wanted to get done within that session.
So interesting. Demand Avoidance is almost exclusively external for me, but something I've coined working with ADHDers is "Disappointment Aversion" which feels similar to your description of internal demand avoidance. There's such a stricture of expectations/criteria that they avoid the task not because they can't start it, but that they know deep down they're going to be disappointed by the outcome. Would love to pick your brain more at some point in the future!
Thanks for responding with more. So glad the algo connected us!! 🤗
That's an interesting one - I don't feel it's that. I mostly have to tell my self I don't HAVE to do something and then, more often than but, once the pressure to do it is off, I'm happy to do it! Weird, I know. Same 🙂
I appreciate the depth of information here, and also how you managed to keep it bite-sized. I'll come back and re-read this so it sinks in further. This actually makes me think of my accountability buddy in an ADHD-adult program, and I'm going to share it with her -- she struggles hardcore with doing her treatment plans, even 5 mins on it, and has a huge ADHD tax/cost of not being able to bill clients as a result! You mentioning your own challenge with therapy notes made me instantly think of her.
Thank you so much for the comment, and glad to hear it was nom-nom-sized!
I literally would struggle through treatment plans all week before I figured out how much stimulation I needed to layer in. Hope it proves helpful for her too... 🙏
omg, smoked gouda is one of my top cheese choices! Heck yes! 🤣
She’s been struggling with this for years, I think… super behind on billing as a result :/ I hope it’s helpful too - she said she listened to “one of them” and it was good stuff, appreciated the share. Not sure exactly what she means, but I’m glad I was able to spread your knowledge around!
I never knew I had ADHD in college. I think I did this stim menu unconsciously whenever I had a paper due the next day. I’d force myself to sit at the computer but to make it bearable I had to chew gum, put a stuffed animal on my head, and change my sitting position every so often, usually something weird like putting both feet on the desk.
You rock for sharing things like this in a kind and compassionate way.
Having sources and building stim menus makes total sense! I hope I use the correct words here: I have tasks, including household maintenance and cleaning, that I simply cannot do without certain sources in place. When everything is in place, I can complete tasks in much less time than when I don’t. Similar to what you described about writing therapy notes. For example, by itself, one sink of dishes would take me an hour to load into the dishwasher and I couldn’t finish without the necessary sources. But with the right sources, gloves and music and a timer for 15 minutes (my ideal stim menu for this task) it takes me five minutes.
Thanks, Dionne--made my day reading this! :)
And I cannot do dishes for the life of me unless there's music and a timer going: we're on the same wavelength! It's crazy how much more time it takes to complete a task without the right amount of stimulation...
I feel like some of the issues of my ADHD are masked by my autism - and vice versa, probably another reason I didn't realise that I was AuDHD for such a long time. I don't think I could ever listen to any background noise to initiate focus for instance, noise is a huge sensory issue for me. I need a quiet, distraction free space (easier said than done right!) and even then it still takes a long time to get in the zone.... But once I'm in, I can stay there. The problem with that, obviously, is the need to commit to that initial start up. Some good ideas there that might help that process, and interesting information about the reasons behind it, thanks.
I imagine it took you some time to understand what stimulation you needed added (and removed). Sounds like finding that zone involves setting up guards from particular stimulation in an environment more so than layering others in: does that track with your experience?
Also, the quote "...to commit to that initial start up..." feels like deep wisdom for ND folks. There's a point where **a commitment is needed to the process of finding the right supports** for a given task, on that particular day.
Thank you, Alys! Appreciate your input very much.
Definitely - I also struggle with internal demand avoidance - I used to think I responded best to a deadline, but actually that was just because I'm so rule bound I could never submit work late. It still made me deeply anxious. I experimented at Uni (before realising I was ND) and found that completing assignments early, when I didn't feel the pressure of the deadline made it more enjoyable. My first working session would usually just be - open a document, add a title, copy and paste the question in and sometimes a very brief outline plan, then save it. I find that for me, STARTING is the hardest part - so once that's done, it's easier to get stuck in. For 20-40 minutes I need peace, no phone notifications or anyone trying to talk to me, then I'm in the hyperfocus zone. I can get up, make a cuppa, talk to my husband etc and stay in the zone - but it's physically painful to think of not finishing what I wanted to get done within that session.
So interesting. Demand Avoidance is almost exclusively external for me, but something I've coined working with ADHDers is "Disappointment Aversion" which feels similar to your description of internal demand avoidance. There's such a stricture of expectations/criteria that they avoid the task not because they can't start it, but that they know deep down they're going to be disappointed by the outcome. Would love to pick your brain more at some point in the future!
Thanks for responding with more. So glad the algo connected us!! 🤗
That's an interesting one - I don't feel it's that. I mostly have to tell my self I don't HAVE to do something and then, more often than but, once the pressure to do it is off, I'm happy to do it! Weird, I know. Same 🙂
Smoked gouda rabbit hole! Nom nom nom 🤣
I appreciate the depth of information here, and also how you managed to keep it bite-sized. I'll come back and re-read this so it sinks in further. This actually makes me think of my accountability buddy in an ADHD-adult program, and I'm going to share it with her -- she struggles hardcore with doing her treatment plans, even 5 mins on it, and has a huge ADHD tax/cost of not being able to bill clients as a result! You mentioning your own challenge with therapy notes made me instantly think of her.
Ah, another smoked gouda cheese enjoyer? 😁💛
Thank you so much for the comment, and glad to hear it was nom-nom-sized!
I literally would struggle through treatment plans all week before I figured out how much stimulation I needed to layer in. Hope it proves helpful for her too... 🙏
omg, smoked gouda is one of my top cheese choices! Heck yes! 🤣
She’s been struggling with this for years, I think… super behind on billing as a result :/ I hope it’s helpful too - she said she listened to “one of them” and it was good stuff, appreciated the share. Not sure exactly what she means, but I’m glad I was able to spread your knowledge around!
💨🧀🫡
Hopefully there's something helpful for her in one of them! And I so feel her pain: Clinical administrative paperwork is awful.
Thanks for sharing Kira!!! 🙏💕
I never knew I had ADHD in college. I think I did this stim menu unconsciously whenever I had a paper due the next day. I’d force myself to sit at the computer but to make it bearable I had to chew gum, put a stuffed animal on my head, and change my sitting position every so often, usually something weird like putting both feet on the desk.
Amazing! Yes, that's totally it!
Also, thanks for painting an image of what it looked like: chewing gum, feet up, stuffed animal sitting on your head...and focused...
Made me smile. :)